Mountain Bike Cornering Foot Position Part 1

On 07/21/2014
By Gene

I just received this email from a student. “Hi Gene, how are you? Sorry for the FB message but I have a quick question. many years ago I did one of your courses and you taught cornering with one leg up and one leg down throughout the turn. I recently participated in an IMBA course and they promote even feet through turns. What are your thoughts on that?” Well, first off, poor coaching like this drives me nuts! 

I know that they are wrong! I didn’t invent a single skill we teach but I and our coaches have spent a lot of years studying, learning and testing what we have learned from the best mountain bikers in the world (and some top motorcycle coaches). In my case, I have been studying mountain bike cornering since 1994! If your pedals are supposed to be level in corners why do the top 100 downhill racers in the world corner foot down? For all the reasons we taught you! Now don’t get me wrong if you aren’t worried about traction keeping your feet level is fine but if there is any possibility of sliding out by simply dropping your outside foot you will DOUBLE your traction! Why? Because if your feet are level 50% of your weight has to be on the inside pedal! That means 50% of your weight is not above the tires! Which means you have half the amount of down force on your tires. If that isn’t enough reason there are several more. It is really hard to separate from your bike with your feet level so you tend to lean with your bike taking even more weight off the tires. Also by dropping your outside foot you get 155-175 mm of extra leverage on the tires and lower yourself to the ground. Because your bike leans when it turns you also get more ground/rock clearance for the inside pedal by dropping the outside.

Greg Minnaar can corner pretty good, he has won 3 World Championships and 3 World Cup Overalls he often corners foot down! As in the photo below from one of our camps with him.

Mountain bike cornering foot position!

Greg Minnaar looking smooth!

Now, before we go any further talking about foot placement when cornering, remember, the most important part of cornering is vision! If you are doing what 99% of mountain bikers do in corners, looking only a few feet ahead, foot placement is the least of your worries. Looking through a corner with incorrect foot placement is much faster and safer than looking only a few feet ahead with perfect foot placement!

Steve Peat cornering foot down on about the roughest surface possible, stairs!

Steve Peat cornering foot down on about the roughest surface possible, stairs!

As you know, we are famous for coaching mountain bike cornering to some of the best cornerers in the world*. Why? because we studied it! We didn’t say, “I corner really well and this is my opinion”. We studied the best mountain bike racers, we worked with World Champions like Greg Minnaar and Marla Streb, we took motorcycle cornering courses, we studied cornering like our life depended on it! Don’t believe me? Go to Red bull dot com and watch the world cup downhill races, you will see that on fast, loose corners 100% of the field is dropping their outside foot. When traction is not an issue or the speeds are slow they will keep their feet level, not because they have too but because there is no need to drop their foot. Now, if they are trying to increase their speed by pumping the corner their feet will be level (a skill we teach in our graduate camp and our downhill camps) as if you are trying to increase speed in a corner you are obviously not worried about traction. In short, we teach cornering foot down because it works, if you dropped your foot when you didn’t need to no harm if you keep your feet level when you should have dropped your outside foot you will crash! I hope this helps. You might think of asking for your money back for paying for coaching that puts you in danger.

Mountain bike cornering foot placement

Aaron Gwin cornering on a berm with outside foot down.

The long story, there are numerous different foot positions for cornering and for entering corners but we don’t want you thinking, “is this a foot level corner or foot down corner?”. By coaching our students to corner foot down we have found that they tend to simply keep the feet level when there is no need to drop the outside foot, much better than thinking!

Gee Atherton Cornering foot down at the world championships.

Gee Atherton Cornering foot down at the world championships.

* National Four Cross and Downhill Champion Mitch Ropelato, 2014 National Dual Slalom Champion Luca Cometti, 2014 Sea Otter Dual Slalom Champion Cody Kelly, Nation Downhill Champion Jackie Harmony, Collegiate Champion and Yeti Ace Joey Schusler, and over 100 more Pro Downhill Racers and Pro XC racers! As a matter of fact Dirt Magazine asked Mitch Ropelato how he corners so well and he had this to say: From the Oct. 2009 issue of Dirt Magazine:

Dirt Magazine: “You seem to be able to turn amazingly, what do you put that down to? Got any special tires on there?

Mitch Ropelato: “Ya, Gene Hamilton is to thank for that, I took is clinic last December in Bootleg Canyon and he was able to show me the correct technique I needed to pull them off.”

Mitch cornering foot down. Thanks to Decline Mag for the photo.

Mitch cornering foot down. Thanks to Decline Mag for the photo.

Stay tuned next week for part two cornering foot placement!

Comments

20 Comments

  1. Griff Wigley

    Hey Gene, glad to see you weigh in on this. I took the IMBA ICP Level 1 course recently and can confirm that their recommendation is level pedals when cornering. My recollection of the rationale given was that total weighting of the outside foot in a corner (foot down position) tends to straighten the bike when it’s leaned over. My informal testing of that is that it’s true up to a point, but once the lean is significant, the bike no longer tends to straighten. Something going on their with physics, I’m guessing!

    But the other issue I’m wondering about is a rider’s ability level. While it may be best for advanced riders to corner with their outside foot down, is it best to instruct beginner and intermediate level riders to do it? It does add an additional level of complexity for them rather than just riding with their feet level. And related, might it be best for beginner and intermediate level riders to first focus on bike lean and maybe even hip flexion before they progress to pedal position? I’m not arguing, just wondering!

    Reply
  2. Scott

    I think there is a misunderstanding of term here. Everyone of those photos shows riders with level pedals per the imba definition. They teach level pedals level RELATIVE to the ground. Draw a line through their pedals and it will be parallel to the ground. That gets you maximum traction and stability. Saying outside pedal down tends to result in riders locking their outside leg on every turn, which is neither balanced or stable.

    Reply
    • Gene

      Hi Scott,

      That is simply not true, in some of the photos the outside pedal is clearly lower and it has 100% of the riders weight on it, both are “wrong” according to the IMBA school. ““The ICP philosophy is that a rider who maintains a solid stance will be able to control the bike under all conditions. We want our riders to stand on both feet using equal pressure…”
      from https://www.imba.com/blog/tammy-donahugh/just-around-corner#sthash.B1u37oHB.dpuf.”

      Reply
  3. Corey

    “My recollection of the rationale given was that total weighting of the outside foot in a corner (foot down position) tends to straighten the bike when it’s leaned over.”

    I believe this will only be the case if you are not shifting your weight (hips) while attempting to lean the bike. In other words, it will be very difficult to corner with the outside foot down while shifting your weight and not push the bike in the opposite direction or lean the bike.

    Reply
  4. Griff Wigley

    Corey, you may be right. And the more I read about this, the more I think it’s hip flexion/torso rotation that’s more important than pedal position, especially for flatland turns. Seb Kemp writes:
    http://nsmb.com/5214-hey-coach-ep-1/

    “Side Note: Foot Position. Some people tend to drop their outside foot (Steve Peat, Cedric Gracia and myself) whereas others will appear to keep their pedals pretty level (Sam Hill and Darren Butler) and others play for both teams. As long as you are driving your body weight into the tires.”

    Reply
    • Gene

      Exactly Griff, vision is more important than anything, then staying on top of your bike, then hip flexion/torso rotation. Although we coach all the little details of every skill we teach we make sure our students know what is a big picture skill (greatly improves your riding) and a little picture skill (improves your riding IF you are doing the big picture skills correctly (more on that in my next foot position article) foot position is in between the two, a medium picture skill.

      However, you absolutely have to drop your outside foot and put 90 to 100% of your weight on that outside pedal to get the maximum amount of traction and the right lean angle for corners requiring a drastic lean angle and maximum down force on the tires. Again, more in my next article!

      Thanks for your input!

      Cheers,

      Gene

      P.S. Sam Hill drops his outside foot, a lot!

      Reply
      • Griff Wigley

        Thanks, Gene. In part 2, can you address the differences between a bermed corner vs. a flat corner re: pedal position/weight distribution?

        Reply
        • Gene

          Yes I can Griff!

          Reply
  5. Jason Land

    As long as you are balanced and in good position driving your weight through the bottom bracket, you may not need to be fully at 12 and 6. If you look at Peaty on those stairs (sick, btw), his feet are at the 1 and 7 position.

    For those wondering, Andy spent 3 solid hours with us on just “cornering” in the Better Ride camp. Elbow position, bike position, counter-steering, hip placement, eye placement, approaching and exiting position, AND pedal position… all while balancing a glass of water on your head. Who knew turning a bike could be so involved? lol.

    Reply
    • Griff Wigley

      “Involved” indeed, Jason. It’s like a pro golf instructor analyzing everything that goes into a pro’s swing. TOO MUCH INFORMATION!

      Reply
  6. Griff Wigley

    IMBA Instructor Certification Program manager Tammy Donahue has a new blog post titled:

    Shaums March Talks About Cornering Technique in response to Gene Hamilton’s criticism:
    https://www.imba.com/blog/tammy-donahugh/just-around-corner

    “Recently, long-time MTB coach Gene Hamilton wrote a blog post about cornering technique. He was overtly critical of the technique that the ICP program teaches, prompting many instructors and riders to send e-mails to the ICP inbox asking for more information about why we favor a level-pedal foot position, rather than teaching students to keep the outside pedal down.”

    Reply
    • Jason Land

      Ironically, every rider in Shaums list uses Gene’s technique.

      Example: In this video you can see that Richie Rude is using outside pedal down on every single corner .
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKfETOwtkNI

      Reply
      • Gene

        Jason, please post the video or email us a a link.

        Thanks,

        Gene

        Reply
  7. Corey

    “The ICP philosophy is that a rider who maintains a solid stance will be able to control the bike under all conditions. We want our riders to stand on both feet using equal pressure…”
    from https://www.imba.com/blog/tammy-donahugh/just-around-corner#sthash.B1u37oHB.dpuf.

    I can’t really think of any athletic endeavor, be it golf or soccer or skiing (a good analogy used by a facebook commenter) where you are not required to shift your weight from one foot to the other as well as be balanced between the two depending on the motion. The primary difference that I observe and practice for appropriate weight distribution is basically broken down to 2 physical states; ready position and attacking.

    Ready position: weight evenly distributed, knees bent, lower center of gravity, etc., able to react as needed.
    Attacking: Weight shifted as needed, maintaining low center of gravity because I’ve shifted my weight appropriately, but placing my body in a position to follow through with whatever motion that I’ve initiated as well as be able to react to changing conditions. Bearing in mind that good attack has to be initiated from a good ready position.

    Using the golf analogy (primarily because it seems to be so far removed from mountain biking, but I am trying to illustrate that the same principles apply) I address the ball with my weight evenly distributed, knees flexed, my body somewhat relaxed, but prepared for action. As soon as I initiate that action, the swing, if I do not shift my weight to maintain good balance and proper positioning, a train wreck will ensue. Mountain biking, approaching the corner, good ready position; entering into, continuing through the corner (attacking), weight HAS to shift appropriately for the motion.

    TL;DR: if you never have to turn your mountain bike then, by all means, keep your weight evenly distributed.

    Please note,I have never taken one or their courses, so my response is based solely on their particular blog post. Although I do find it ironic that they acknowledge that, “good cornering technique is more complex and dynamic than that,” in referring to pedal position, yet state that it can be simply addressed with evenly weighted pedals.

    Reply
    • Gene

      Right on Corey!

      Reply
  8. Alex

    Hi,

    there is no difference in traction between equal weight on pedals and all weight on the outside foot. Just ask a physicist. When you step on a scale and lift one foot, all your weight will be on the other foot and but you will still weigh the same. In the case of the bike, the contact with the ground are both tyres. Only the tyres create traction. The tyres will be pressed onto the ground with the same force in both cases (one pedal all weight or equal weight both pedals) thus resulting in the same traction. The only thing, that may change, when you put all your weight only on your outside pedal is, that you may need to tilt your bike more to stay in balance.

    Reply
  9. JOHN

    This tip has helped me so much! Thanks for the article. Especially in downhill switchback turns.

    Reply

Submit a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Rider Reviews

Thanks again, you were a great part of my succees for 2005. I had the best year of my life. Part of which at the age of 52, I entered numerous mtn bike races, podiumed 5 times and won the Texas Mountain Bike Racing Association series for my division.

Your instruction, professsionalism and emails went above and beyond all expectations.

Kent Wells
2016

Thanks Coach Gene for your time the last 2 days! Your coaching is spot on! I’m so lucky to have had the chance to spend this time learning from the most passionate mountain biker out there – one who cares about the sport and all the techniques that go into it! Total respect! That’s all I have to say! If anyone is questioning or “thinking” about signing up for his camp- DON’T , just do! Thank you Gene!!!!

Gretchen Wavro

This was by far the best use of both money and time in regards to my mountain bike training.
Its 3 days of my life I will never forget.

Jim, BetterRide Camper

The results are starting to trickle in as I have the time to ride some of my local rides that I track my times on.  I’m astonished!

My descending time from the summit of Chimney Gulch to the Beaver Brook cross over dropped from a personal best of 6:51.0 to 5:46.0, for the bottom section it went from a personal best of 13:42.0 to 10:12.2.  Considering that I really haven’t had enough time to practice a lot yet, I’m stunned at the improvement.  I can also say that I felt more in control than I used to and I cleaned a section I’ve never had the balls to even try before.

Again Gene, I can’t thank you enough.  The camp was great.  Your ability to break skills down into digestible parts, watch riders and help them refine techniques, your humility and sense of humor make you a world class coach.  I’ll be taking your next level two clinic this year and probably a refresher next year.”

 Mark Forgy
Expert XC racer, Mountain Bike Fanatic

Just wanted to give you an update and let you know that I am starting to experience the delayed effects of your camp.  I knew when the camp ended that I was leaving with some new skills that were helpful immediately.  But I also knew there were other skills that were going to take more practice, patience and time.  Well, I’m starting to see them.  

I’ve been practicing descending the way you instructed us but until the last couple of weeks, I knew I was still faster descending the way I always had – I was just more comfortable that way.  But in the last couple of weeks, it all kind of clicked.  

I’m not winning any downhill races – yet – but all of a sudden (and it really did seem to happen pretty suddenly) your techniques took over and instead of just using them at low speeds only when I thought about it, I was using them all over the trails and feeling pretty comfortable.  Now I find myself only reverting to my old techniques when I come into a corner already off balance.  Anyway, thanks, it’s a great feeling – can’t wait to use them on race courses this year!

Sarah Kaufman
Top Pro Endurance Racer

I just wanted to let you know that I’ve had big improvements in my racing this year after taking the betteride course (about 10 minutes improvement from last year).  I got 2nd place in the beginner category at Eldora, then placed 15th out of 35 in the Sport category at Winterpark in my first ‘sport race’.   I passed people on the downhill for the first time in these two races, and am feeling much more confident on the downhills (I hit 31.5 mph max on a tight singletrack in the Eldora race).

Jonathan Jones

Tonight was the first night of practice cyclocross races.  The cornering techniques I learned in you camp last weekend rock on the cross bike.  I was able to carry speed through the corners and off cambers that I could only dream of last year!

I actually found myself cranking up the speed before the corners instead of braking. Nobody else is using this technique.  I found my self keeping pace with stronger riders just on cornering skill alone.  Imagine after I’ve a had a few weeks to practice.

I had best time of my life on a mountain bike at your camp, and look forward to doing another one next spring.

Chris Cornelison
September 24, 2010

I took your Neshaminy clinic in June.  I wanted to fill you in on my race results.  I raced all season in the Midatlantic Super Series in Women’s Sport. I won the overall championship!  I am so happy that I won!  I will be moving up to Elite next year.

I’ve been doing the drills you taught for 20 minutes, twice a week.  I almost always preride my race courses.  I work on hard sections to figure out the best lines.  Since the clinic, I have noticed that my balance has improved tremendously.

So, Gene… thank you for the clinic.  I still tell all my riding buddies about it. Especially how you break down the mechanics of everything that you teach.  I let them know how you explain the physics behind the techniques.  I tell them that the learning environment you provide is the perfect way to learn something, practice it, and really get it. I’d love to do a refresher course.

Angie Wallace
September 15, 2009

Attending Gene’s camp in Sedona was one of the best decisions that I’ve ever made. You can read skills articles and watch the youtube videos all day, but these will never engrain the skills needed to become a good mountain biker.

Gene’s course teaches you all of the primary skills, and then he drills them into you. You repeat these drills under his watchful eye until the become engrained. It’s been about 9 months since I attended the course and I still hear Gene correcting me if I’m going about an obstacle or turn in the wrong position.

I still make every ride a learning experience because of what he taught, and my riding has improved immensely as a result. Thanks Gene!

Steven Peyton
August, 2018

Just wanted to show you what your lessons made me do this past weekend!  If you click on the photo or link to the photo album look through the album and on the 2nd page, bottom row, there’s a great shot of me doing what you taught me to do with my elbows-totally Brian Lopes style. 

I was impressed to see myself doing that-a big change in my riding style and I know it’ll make me faster in the long run.

So thanks and I may have some time coming up where I can make it to one of your camps-I’ll let you know.

Amanda Riley, Kenda, Titus, Hayes Team
Winners of 2008, 24 hours of Old Pubelo

Thanks again for holding the camp last weekend.  I was finally able to get out and ride yesterday on the falcon trail (loop that goes around the Air Force Academy).  There are two sections that I have had problems with in the past.  One is a tight turn with two drop offs that are oddly spaced and the landing slopes off into some bushes.  I’ve ridden the trail a dozen times and walked that section most times.  Once I tried it and endo‘ed into the bushes.  When I rode it yesterday, I cleared it with confidence.  

I kept repeating to myself “Do or Do Not – There Is No Try”:-) I relaxed, saw the line I wanted to take, found my balance and went through the section very controlled – it was great!

The next section is a steep switchback climb with a ton of sand.  I have never made that turn, although I have tried to every time I’ve ridden the trail.  This time I approached the switchback using the techniques and strategy you taught us.  The result – made it!  No problem!

The last thing I noticed is that the whole ride was smoother.  I focused primarily on the vision techniques  – and body position skills.  The ride felt slower than what I normally ride, but it was actually six minutes faster!  Absolutely amazing!
Brad
Oct. 8, 2008 (5 days after his 3-day coaching session)

My son took your camp in winter park at age 14. He is 16 and just completed the Laramie Epic (30 miles) last weekend. He placed 2 in the age bracket 0-29. He continues to use your techniques and tips. Smooth is fast! Your worksheets are worn out and weathered from continued use! Worth it….you bet!!!

Sheila Palmer
July 2019

Your camp gave me the confidence to go out and try a few races this summer.  My first race was in the beginner 40 to 45 age class in the “Point to Point” cross country race in Winter Park.  While I certainly did not break any records – I at least had a respectable finish and more importantly had a total blast.  

My second race was a Super D (much more my style in that there is MUCH less uphill cranking) at Winter Park where I got a second place finish in my age group.  3rd race was a Mountain States Cup Super D race in Copper where I came in tenth.  Again no records but still having a total blast.  

My friends the same age as me think I am crazy doing this stuff but I think they are crazy to be sitting on their arses.  Again, thank you for giving me the confidence to go out there and try some racing and hopefully in the near future I will be in another one of your camps!

Will Edgington
September, 2009

Thanks for the e-mail.  By the way, after completing your camp in Arizona, I dropped 5 minutes off my previous best lap time at the 12 hours of Temecula mountain bike race (59 to 54 minutes).  Obviously, this was a significant breakthrough.  

I’ve also noticed that by being a smoother and more efficient rider and by decoupling my body from the bike, I exert less energy and travel faster.  “Looking to victory” works like a charm.  Most importantly, the basic skills I was exposed to in your camp (and continue to develop) have made mountain biking more enjoyable.

Keith
January 2008

I’ve been wanting to pass on a personal success story.  I participated in my first mountain bike race in Copper Harbor, MI. I placed 6th in my age group (over 6 min. behind 3rd place) on a very technical course. Considering the field, I was happy with the results.

My goal after the BetterRide camp was to be in the top 3 in the same race with a similar field. With my new found skills I placed 1st this time with 2nd place over 7 min. behind. I tore it up! Thanks, I’m always telling people that no matter how much they think they know how to ride a mountain bike, they owe it to themselves to attend one of your camps. A year later I still practice my skills every time I’m out.

BTW, a while back you suggested some reading material. I chose Body, Mind Mastery by Dan Millman. (in audio book form). Not only do I feel it helped my mountain bike skills with things like, how tension is counter productive and how the “opponent is not the enemy, but instead the teacher” it also helped me in my own personal life. Good recommendation!
Keep up the good job.

Rich Schmit
April 2011

Gene and fellow BetterRiders!
I have been smiling all day long today, thinking about our rad weekend together! I taught 4 of my kids how to do wheelies today and they thought I was super cool for a solid 5 minutes until they had it completely mastered and were smoking past my on their rear wheels. 

 
Thank you forever, Gene, for sharing your passion and deciding to teach. An empowering, motivating, completely exhilarating weekend. I feel like a little kid on Christmas morning with my new toy. It was a total honor to cross paths with you all!

Currently standing on one leg while I brush my teeth and dictate this email…
Jen  

Friends took the 3 day a while ago and really enjoyed it.

I didn’t think I was ready for that but I hired him privately for most of a day. Best experience going. It helped my skiing also. Eyes, eyes and balance via movement on the bike. 

Steamboat in the rain…..

John Rostenbur

MTB Skills Camp in Fraser, CO. It was amazing. Phenomenal skills coach, Coach Gene Hamilton, literally broke down the fundamentals of mountain biking in 3 days. Super fun fellow campers. Enjoyed every bit.

Now I need to practice and strengthen some new neural circuits. If you want to improve your MTB skills, no matter your level, take a course from Better Ride.
Patricia George

Thank you, Gene! I thoroughly enjoyed your skills camp. One of the most effective learning environments I have experienced to date. Now it is all about due diligence!

 I am interested in a “day with Gene in Moab” and future course offerings.

Ryan Bertram

 

Gene, The first thing I did was buy some cones. My drive way is pretty steep so can do switch backs there. My pedal wheelies are coming along. Yesterday I had a bit of a breakthrough ride with my vision. On a ride with some small drop offs I realized by using the vision technique I was more balanced, more comfortable and jumped further without trying. 

That was the best clinic I have ever done. Thanks for the reading list. I’ve read a number of those books but I now have more to read.

Don Leet

 

 

Related Posts

MTB Skills: How We Actually Learn

MTB Skills: How We Actually Learn

Why is it so hard to actually do a skill you understand? The answer is in my latest blog post. MTB Skills: How We Actually Learn

The Ultimate MTB Cornering Drill

The Ultimate MTB Cornering Drill

Do you want to get much better at cornering? If so, I’d like to share The Ultimate MTB Cornering Drill you can practise on trail.